By Roger McKinney

rmckinney@joplinglobe.com

Chris Meek’s clients have included accused war criminals.

The Baxter Springs, Kan., attorney said some torture defendants at the International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia were convicted for much less that what is described in the legal memos and reports recently released about the interrogation of detainees in U.S. custody.

Meek said waterboarding and other interrogation methods described in the memos and in a Senate Armed Services report are torture. He also said torture is a criminal violation of international and U.S. law.







Interrogation techniques described in the Senate Armed Services Committee report include waterboarding, sleep deprivation, isolation, food deprivation and removal of clothing and exposure to cold temperatures or water. Some techniques were used in combination.

Meek said there should be congressional hearings into the abuses and that those shouldn’t preclude criminal investigations and prosecutions.

“I think there probably should be at least hearings,” Meek said. He also said it’s important that the American people be aware of its government’s conduct.

He said he doesn’t disagree with President Obama’s decision to absolve CIA agents who participated in the interrogations, but he’s unsure how far the investigation should go.

“Just following orders has never been a defense,” Meek said.

Japanese soldiers following World War II were convicted during the International Military Tribunal for the Far East for using waterboarding on U.S. soldiers. Sen. John McCain, R-Arizona, mentioned it as he was campaigning for president, and noted that some of the Japanese were executed for their crimes.

“America is a better nation than that,” McCain said at the time.

No mistreatment

Meanwhile, a local soldier whose unit was in charge of a detainee cell block at Guantanamo Bay in 2002 said he witnessed no mistreatment of detainees, though he said he wasn’t involved in and didn’t witness any interrogations. Joplin Army Reserve Capt. Marshall Hogue said he also saw no evidence of detainee abuse during his time in Iraq.

“We treated all the detainees humanely and fairly,” Hogue said. He said the detainees were served three religiously appropriate meals a day. He also said detainees had access to showers, though not daily.

Hogue said U.S. soldiers were living under the same conditions as the detainees, though soldiers were in tents and detainees were incarcerated about 150 yards away.

“At no time were the detainees abused or anything like that by the guards,” Hogue said. “At no time were they treated with disrespect or abused or anything like that.”

Hogue said that also was the case when he was in Iraq in 2005 and 2006, when he transported detainees from a detention center at the Baghdad airport to court hearings.

He said because it was a combat zone, the detainees were given Kevlar vests to wear.

“They were all given the same protection we were given,” Hogue said. “We were responsible for them.”

He declined to share his opinions about what he has seen and read about the interrogation methods used on some detainees.

“I don’t feel comfortable about that,” Hogue said.

‘Serious blow’

In statements on his Web site, U.S. Sen. Christopher “Kit” Bond, R-Mo., pointed out that President Obama didn’t release documents that Bond says detail how the interrogations resulted in “life-saving intelligence.”

He also said the release of the interrogation memos has resulted in a victory for the American Civil Liberties Union at the price of national security.

“The president’s decision is a serious blow to our terror-fighters and even worse, to their ability to obtain the intelligence we need to prevent another 9/11,” Bond’s statement reads.

And while Obama also addressed the potential usefulness of the interrogation methods during his Wednesday news conference, he said unequivocally that he believes waterboarding is torture.

“I don’t think that’s just my opinion; that’s the opinion of many who’ve examined the topic,” Obama said. “And that’s why I put an end to these practices. I am absolutely convinced it was the right thing to do — not because there might not have been information that was yielded by these various detainees who were subjected to this treatment, but because we could have gotten the information in other ways, in ways that were consistent with our values, in ways that were consistent with who we are.”

U.S. Sen Claire McCaskill, D-Mo., and U.S. Rep. Lynn Jenkins, R-Kan., were not available for interviews on the topic, but each submitted written statements. McCaskill wrote that she doesn’t favor pursuing prosecutions.

McCaskill wrote: “Hopefully we can close this chapter in our history now and I don’t think it’s good to get bogged down in criminal prosecutions of the previous administration. As a former prosecutor, I understand the prospects and the pitfalls of intense interrogations and it’s questionable as to whether torture produces credible testimony. More importantly and more likely, we could get the information in other ways using other techniques and resources.”

Jenkins repeated Bond’s contention that releasing the memos was political, because the information gained from the interrogation techniques was not also released.

Meek said because torture is a crime, it doesn’t matter if it works.

“I don’t think the ends justify the means,” Meek said.





Senate report

Here are some of the conclusions from the Senate Armed Services Committee report on detainee treatment:

n In February 2002, President George W. Bush made a written determination that Common Article 3 of the Geneva Conventions, which would have afforded minimum standards of humane treatment, didn’t apply to al-Qaida or Taliban detainees. Following the determination, techniques such as waterboarding, nudity and stress positions were authorized for interrogations.

n Former Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld’s authorization of aggressive interrogation techniques for use at Guantanamo Bay was a direct cause of detainee abuse there. Techniques used included use of military working dogs, forced nudity and stress positions.

n Interrogation policies approved by Lt. Gen. Ricardo Sanchez were a direct cause of detainee abuse in Iraq.

n The abuse of detainees at Abu Ghraib in late 2003 was not simply the result of a few soldiers acting on their own. Interrogation techniques such as stripping detainees of their clothes, placing them in stress positions and using military working dogs to intimidate them appeared in Iraq only after they had been approved for use in Afghanistan and at Guantanamo Bay.